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hide behind the second amendment. >> these tragedies must end. to end them, we must change. >> the president calls for change in the wake of a massacre. tonight, how voters can make their voices louder than the gun lobbies. >> this myth that the nra can destroy political careers is just not true. >> the nra's power is so vastly overrated. >> plus, the facts about the nra's power. mayor michael bloomberg's right hand power. will real america come around on common sense gun laws? >> john nichols on the conservative push to keep common sense gun laws out of the middle of the country. plus, republican obstacles to reduce violence with jonathan and alex wagner. and dr. gail saultz on the role mental health professionals need to play to reduce the violence.

>> no single law, no set of laws can can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless ablt of violence in our society. but that can't be an excuse for an action. >> good to have you with us tonight. folks, thanks for watching. almost 24 hours ago, president obama called for a change in this country. now it's up to all of us to make sure changes come to pass. the community of newtown connecticut is still deeply mourning the lives of 26 people, 20 of them children. the president struck an almost impossible balance of heartfelt emotion and out ragrage. the weight of the moment. no american can relive the horror of this. >> we can't tolerate this anymore. these tragedies must end. and to end them, we must change. we will be told that the causes of such violence are complex and that is true.

no single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society. but that can't be an excuse for an action. surely we can do better than this. >> this is a moment in history where an event alters the direction of a country and moves lawmakers to unity. dianne feinstein was the first to announce an update on an assault weapons ban which she introduced in congress and will introduce it early next year. >> i intend to introduce a bill. and i intend one way or another, no matter how long it takes, to get that bill through. there's one thing i'm sure of. that in the absence of doing something, that is sound, that is practical, that is workable, these incidents are not going to stop.

i've watched them now since the texas bell tower in 1967. >> feinstein was author of the weapons ban which was allowed to expire under george w. bush. her new bill would ban more than 100 specific firearms including semiautomatic rifles, handguns, and shotguns. it bans devices capable of carrying more than ten rounds of ammunition. it also exempts more than 900 specific weapons. it's not a ban on all guns. it's a ban on unnecessary guns. today, senator frank loutenburg of new jersey also introduced a plan to ban the sale of high-capacity magazines. senator pat leahy says he will hold hearings on gun safety issues early next year. outside of congress, rahm

emanuel spoke to a class of chicago police officers about turning on the pressure for tougher laws. >> it's time that we as a city and we as a state and we as a country make sure you get backed up. we can't just stand behind you and say we support our men and women in law enforcement community and then not have the laws on the books that help you do your job every day. it's time we have an assault weapons ban. it's time we as a state have an assault weapons ban. it's time we as a country have a ban. >> member of congress are feeling the pressure. some pro-gun senators understand things need to change. senators joe manchin and harry reid and mark warner have received stellar grades despite being democrat crate. harry reid said we're not doing

enough to protect our citizens. he said, every idea should be on the table. senator warner told "the washington post," there's got to be a way to put reasonable restricts, particularly as we look at assault weapons as we look at these fast clip of ammunition. senator manchin is one of the nra's brightest stars on capitol hill. the nra endorsed him at the 2010 west virginia senate race. manchin ran a campaign ad where he fired a bill through the cap and trade bill. >> i think this is time for us to sit down and move in a responsible manner and i think they will. if dianne is saying assault weapons, i don't know anyone in the sporting arena that needs that for hunting. >> it's frustrating to know that we've been down here before.

a 1989 school shooting in stockton, california, led to the first assault weapons ban in the nation. five years later, a federal ban was adopted by congress. here we are, no ban is in place today. the gun industry just couldn't be happier or more profitable and no ban is there. so they can give us wonderful stuff like this. this is a drum-style magazine from an assault rifle just like the one the newtown shooter used. it can hold up to 90 bullets at a time. let me read you the description of this product from a gun company that we won't say their name so they don't get extra publicity. precision built, ultra-high capacity drum-style magazine allows extended shooting strings and plenty of shooting fun with your favorite ar-15 or m-16 rifle. i ask you tonight, what purpose does this serve in a civilized

society? increased shooting fun in light of what happened last friday? those words should make your blood boil tonight. the nra has spent billions of dollars lobbying for these weapons manufacturers and the gun makers convince people to go ahead and buy them with ads like this. consider your man card reissued, it says. this is the same assault rifle used in sandy hook elementary school. it works. brak friday gun sales right after thank giving broke records across the country. keep in mind, these weapons are being sold to a population where 40% of all gun buyers are not required to undergo background checks. that's called the gun show loop. well, the nra sells people on buying these weapons and then use this fear to convince them that their freedom is going to be taken away from them. i want the nra to tell the families of newtown, connecticut, how much fun this

bushmaster rifle is. i want to suppoask leaders how this has been for the country. some people call this the tipping point. the tip of the spear is you. lawmakers need to cower in fear of voters. we need real change in this country. we need to get on the phone as americans with every elected official who has opposed an assault weapons ban and say, you will not get my vote. as the president said, we can no longer sit back and do nothing. >> are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage? that the politics are too hard? are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?

>> we are the people. we are the constitution. we can shake this country whatever image we want. the change and the time is now coming close together. the time for change is right now. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, will you support any politician who doesn't support reasonable gun laws? text a for yes and b for know to 622639. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me now is michael eric dice son. dock for, good to have you here with us tonight. >> thank you, sir. >> i'm going to be harsh on lawmakers. their number one goal is to get re-elected but is this moment in time when they might forget re-election and do what is really right because this is what the country wants? >> i hope so and pray for it,

ed. finally people who have been ardent supporters and advocates for the second amendment get some commonsense. you don't need strips, drips, and drums of that high capacity to go out and hunt. there's no justification on earth for us to be able to retain this kind of assault weaponry in defense of our second amendment right and us a steps blee for the purposes of hunting. you've put on the table some conservative republicans and some democrats that have been receiving great grades from the nra have are come to their senses. the nra must not be allowed to be a shadow government. we've allowed them to be able to gain our credit kengss as citizens who are card-carrying defenders of the constitution and second amendment. no more. the death of those children in

newtown, the death of children in chicago, detroit, philadelphia, new york, the death of children across this country is enough to say to us, we must end all of this madness. come to the table and i think politicians finally get that. >> can the nra, can the influence of this organization, which has intimidated lawmakers for years, thrown money at people that they don't want to see in the congress because they want to protect all this fearmongering that they do, can they finally be defeated by this public outrage? i think that's where we are at right now. good thing there's not an election tomorrow because the nra would be in trouble. it's the fearmongering and can the public finally overcome that? >> i think so. and let's not underestimate them. we know that the nra is laying in the cut. they now know to come forward. feelings are tender. they know that people are outraged and fed up with all of this madness and baloney. so they are going to lay in the cut waiting to reemerge to say,

look, all of us lament and mourn but let's not go too far in the other direct. they will put forth arguments, if the teachers are better armed, we know violence against violence and when you have the presence of guns like that it only leads to more death. studies have been done. we neglect our scholarly insight that those who possess guns are more likely to use them and die from them. we may have enough unified voices to say to the nra, you will not cower us and we will not be intimidated by you. >> there's a lot of components that go into this gun violence in america. we'll explain more in this broadcast. but i cannot let anyone off the hook who says that they think that guns should be in the schools. the teachers, the

administrators, they are not professional firearm handlers. that's not why they went to college. they didn't go to college to do this kind of stuff. if you want to put cops in the school that's a different scenario but to call on a teacher or add -- administrators, that's ridiculous. coming up, mayor michael bloomberg calls the nra's influence vastly overrated. i'll talk to the mayors against illegal guns. mark glaze, about bloomberg's call to action on gun control. and later, i'm getting a lot of reaction about my commentary about gun activists hiding against the second amendment. we'll be right back.

the great defied on gun

control and laws. john nichols on the great views in you are began and rural areas and the role. nra in shaping the conversation about gun laws. later, dr. gail saulz on the role that mental health professionals can play in reducing mental health in the country. we'll have the details. don't forget to listen to my radio station siriusxm on channel 127. we're coming right back. am i on this one? no, no, no, no, no. i am on this one. channel 127. we're coming right back. through diet and exercise alli can help you lose one more by blocking some of the fat you eat. simple. effective. belt-friendly. let's fight fat with alli. have a healthier holiday at letsfightholidayfat.com.

and one wedding, 2 kids, 43 bottles of olay total effects and many birthdays later, still looks amazing. thanks to the trusted performance of olay. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. this is an outrage. we are killing each other. and we're the only industrialized country in the world doing it. >> new york mayor michael bloomberg earlier today leading the charge on gun control and he challenged the notion that pushing for tougher laws is

impossible given the influence of the nra. >> but today the nra's power is so vastly overrated. the public, when you do the polls, they want to stop this carnage. >> today the mayor echoed those sentiments calls out elected officials on both sides. >> this is is not a partisan issue. this is just a bunch of people who i think are cowed by the nra. as i said yesterday, do you think the nra has power? their number one priority was to defeat barack obama. last time i checked, he's going to be innaug rated again. >> the nra has stopped tweeting. it also took down its facebook page on friday, just one day after it celebrated a milestone of 1.7 million likes. there are signs that the nra might be losing its grip on washington. nra member and senator joe

manchin says he's rethinking his positions on gun control. but as slate points out, nra has not lost any kind of vote on gun legislation since 1999. the five republicans who voted "aye" are all gone and al gore's tie-breaking "aye" became the focus on the campaign against him. and just days before the slaughter at sandy hook elementary, they were fearmongering over gun laws. on december 5th the organization was preparing to battle with the president. we're not optimistic. we're planning for the worst. we told people to plan for gun bans and a supreme stacked with antigun judges. the president has a variety of options at his disposal. we don't take any of them for granted. let's turn to mark glaze,

director of mayor against illegal guns. >> thanks for having me. >> is this a history making moment with firearms in this country? >> it absolutely is. to me it feels like -- for those of us who were alive at the time -- like the oklahoma city bombing. you had this terrible moment where people reeevilre-evaluate thought about their lives in a different way. that doesn't happen every day and it doesn't happen at every mass shooting. >> so it sounds like there's a coalition being put together, elected o elected officials, tech leaders that you're talking about, ground swell support from people across america who are afraid and have just had enough. but the nra, mayor bloomberg says that their influence is vastly overrated. there are people that would disagree with that. what do you think? >> if you actually sit down and do the analysis, which believe it or not, nobody had done it until recently, they

overwhelmingly endorse incumbents. they spread money across a lot of people. and for commonsense regulations don't really get involved in politics and as a result they are the only game in town. look at this last election. the nra put $100,000 in the senate races and six of those candidates lost. they were ranked dead last out of all of the political organizations in terms of their effectiveness of their dollars. .183% on investment. they are not what they are cracked up to be and we've known that for a while. >> they depicted scott walker as grabbing all guns and it's had an effect. it has had an effect on rural americans, don't you think? >> i think it's one thing that they use to paint democrat in particular of being too liberal but it's one of a lot of things.

tom barrett was not talking about guns in that race. that's not the reason he lost. there were other reasons that he lost that we regret. the fact is we have mayors who understand if you do the right thing, politics will take care of themselves. they run and they win. >> what do they hope to achieve. >> first thing is, maybe close to 50% get a background check. >> that's because of the gun show loophole. anyone can go into a gun show and that was before the internet generation. now a huge and growing share of the private gun sales that take place in this country with no background check are online with no background check, no record of the transportation and no questions asked. so you should require a

background check for all gun sales. second thing you should do is take a very serious look is whether we can craft an assault weapons ban that causes enormous amount of mayhem in minutes because nobody has to reload. you should try to do that seriously in a way that gets them off the streets and i think we can do it. believe it or not, no federal statute makes gun buying a crime. if i straw buy and sell it to a mexican cartel, the penalties for that are the same as trafficking chickens. >> so all of the mayors are on board with these three things, they know what they are going to push congress to do? >> we had a conference call and we've had hundreds of mayors from across the country join us on the same wik theek that this happened, we have the mayor of tucson, ohio, north carolina call to join us because they hear about what we're doing, they've had enough, whether republican or democrat, they

understand that the politics of this are right. the nra isn't all that it's cracked up to be and people have reached the point where it's beyond time to act. >> mark glaze, thanks so much. the divide between urban and rural america is never greater than on guns. john nichols joins me next. republicans are hitting the same old nra talking points. they are talking about guns in schools. msnbc's alex wagner and jonathan alter are here well reaction. stay with us. ♪ the weather outside is frightful ♪

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welcome back to "the ed show." thanks for watching tonight. whether we want to believe it or not, there is a divide between urban and rural in this country on a number of issues. taxes, women's health care, gays and guns. but gun control is still the biggest sticking point, i think. if you think about it, it's possible for a democrat to be elected in the united states senate in a swing state even if he or she supports some tax increases, is pro choice and is for marriage equality. but it's a different story on guns. democrats are far more vulnerable in this issue and the nra knows it. in the wisconsin recall election, here's what the nra did to mayor tom barrett. >> this is your freedom. this is your freedom if tom barrett gets the chance to recall your gun rights. >> freedom is the buzz word. no question about it.

nra spending in 2012 was more than $17 million on federal elections alone, according to our next guest, john nichols, about $6 million was spent in support of americans, only $11 million was spent against democrats. i'm joined tonight by john nichols, washington correspondent for "the nation" magazine. i don't want to overstate this. do you think there is a divide between urban and rural when it comes to the gun culture? >> there's a divide in how it's talked about and how it's thought about. it's not one that can't be leapt but it's one that president obama and supporters of gun control have to understand and they have to take lessons from some of the political figures who have figured out how to leap over it. the -- it's not that hard. what you do have to understand is that people in rural america often grew up around guns, i did. i come from a very small town

and we went skeet shooting together and so the political players who favor gun control sometimes act as if rural folks are not rational about this. don't really understand where they are at. the way they come at it is the way that bernie sanders and some others have. >> the technology and manufacturing in the way that guns can do is far different than 20 years ago. >> uh-huh. >> we're living in almost a different set of rules yet there's that second amendment sitting right there that they cling on to and won't move which makes it politically dangerous to come up with any kind of gun

legislation. where is this all going? >> well, the thing is, there has to be a message to rural folks and gun owners across the country. look, we understand that you may be a hunter, a gun collector, you may have just grown up in a family where guns are are always a part of your life. you can continue to do that, the second amendment will protect you on that but you need to separate yourself from these maniacs who are running around with automatic weapons and walking into theaters and into schools. you need to have a certain self-respect and say, look, my gun rights, my gun engagement, if you will, is completely different from these maniacs. and as a result, we need to say to these folks, you can be on the side of sensible gun control and still not only protect your guns but also protect the culture that you regard highly. it's doable. bernie sanders has done it. you can be a progressive and

speak to these communities but you have to speak to them with are respect. >> what does it say when a senator like joe manchin of west virginia comes out and takes a stand for an assault weapons ban in a state that traditionally is very protective of firearms? >> it's monumental. west virginia is the state which really was the symbol of al gore's troubles in 2000 on the gun rights issue. and remember that joe manchin when he was running for this u.s. senate seat cut an ad in which he was shooting at a target. >> yeah. >> and so the bottom line is that him taking this stand is good evidence of just how much this issue has gun to shift and the potential that president obama has to talk about it to rural americans. >> john nichols, washington correspondent of "the nation," great to have you. a lot more is coming up in the next half hour on "the ed show." stay with us. >> the principal lunging to

protect kid. i wish she had an m-4 in her office so that when she heard gunfire she could pull it out. >> the righties double down. alex wagner and jonathan alter. what role does this country's mental health need to play to curb the violence? dr. gail saltz is here with answers. and if the club for growth is john boehner, you know it's good news for democrats. the latest on the fiscal cliff negotiations is ahead. yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 at schwab, we're committed to offering you tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 low-cost investment options-- tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 like our exchange traded funds, or etfs

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civilians. that will stop mass shootings. so now, after the sandy hook shooting, republicans are calling for guns -- guns in schools. look no further than your sunday talk shows. >> i'm not so sure -- and i'm sure i'll get nailed from this -- i'm not so sure i wouldn't want one person in a school armed and ready for this type of thing. the principal lunged at this guy, the school psychologist lunged at this guy. my god, if you can prevent this kind of thing, i think we ought to do that. >> congressman louie gomer took it a step forward. he said that the principal should have had an m-4 assault rifle. >> in hearing the story of the principal trying to protect, chris, i wish she would have had an m-4 in her office and she takes him out, takes his head

off before he could kill those precious kids. >> just what kids are trained to do, don't you think? he's known for his absurd statements but this one is shameless. the fact is, armed civilians do not stop mass shootings from happening. "mother jones" studied this and they did not find a single instant. republicans hide behind the second amendment to stop gun control and the american people, i think, are stick of it. let's turn to alex wagner host of "now" and jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst and columnist for "bloomberg view." alec, we always hear this coming out from the right supplied by the nra. is this time different? >> i think it's different this

time and an acknowledgement that this is a line in the sand. the argument of the teacher theory or proposal is a new level of ridiculousness? can you imagine after the terrorists who had the explosives in his shoes, if he had said, every airline passenger should have shoe -- explosive shoes so we can combat it like that, it's a ludicrous proposition. i was speaking with john larson, a congressman from connecticut. he said if that's what louie go mert thinks flies in texas, that's there's acknowledgement that there needs to be change but there's so much resistance, so much entrenched resistance to the notion of reasonable laws around guns and gun possession that you're seeing an initial grasping of straws, anything but laws that are going to make it less easy for people to get weapons. >> jonathan, the fact that children were involved in this,

has that disarmed advocates that were out to make sure they protect guns at all costs? >> not necessarily. these folks are shameless. you know, louie go mert and some of the others were saying after the colorado shooting that if the people in that theater had been armed, maybe the mass murderer wouldn't have been able to kill those folks, including a couple of children. imagine if you had people firing wildly in a dark theater. there would have been more people who died in aurora. it's just a per post rouse idea. i don't think that they can be ultimately reasoned with. they can only be beaten with after a movement is built, a national movement. i think it's important for progressives and pro gun reform people to be smart about this. and so as a first step i would suggest retiring gun control, quote/unquote as an expression. it's too threatening to people

who are gun owners and replacing it with every reference and for all of us to train ourselves to say over and over again in a disciplined way, we are talking about, quote, commonsense gun safety. commonsense gun safety. who can be against that? if we start to redefine the terms and build a movement, that will include a lot of organizing by the same people who re-elected barack obama. then this can start to make progress in a legislative way. but it's a long-time process. >> some on the conservative side, here is mike huckabee blaming the shooting on a lack of god in schools. let's take a look. >> we ask why there is violence in our schools but we've systematically removed god from our schools. should we be so surprised that school is a place of carnage? we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about

eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability. we're going to have to not just be accountable to the police but one day we stand before a holy god and judgment. >> alec, your response to that? >> i'd like to see jideo christian values inand guns represent not just guns but a whole way of life for a part of the country and to some degree the fear is understandable but to not actually examine the real problem, it's not just about values, it's not just about video games, it's about the weapons. and to excise that from the conversation is not only irresponsible but it's not a way of -- there's no way for the nation to heal if you don't look at this realistically. >> before the healing, we have to call out mike huckabee on this. this is really shameful. he's saying that those children

wouldn't have died if somehow the gunman -- if there had been prayer in the schools and that the gunman had gone to a school with prayer? is that what he's saying? >> he is saying because we've taken god out of schools and it's affected society so much, we have people going around shooting up school. >> how does he explain people going up and shooting up churches? they haven't thrown prayer out of churches, last time i checked. >> they will expand the boundaries of conversations to fit themselves. >> but at a certain point, you know, not everybody can be taken seriously there are gun advocates who deserve to be heard in this debate. but if somebody says something as obscene as that, they shouldn't be taken seriously. >> i'm surprised that lindsey graham and other conservatives can be so outraged about the loss of life, which is terrible, about ambassadors that are

working over in benghazi, and yet they are very, very quiet on this. >> and keep in mind, john mccain hired sarah palin to be vice president who coined the phrase, don't retreat, reload. >> that pretty much says it all. alex wagner, jonathan alter, thank you. breaking news in the fiscal cliff negotiations. president obama has a counteroffer. more after this. that was ups. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. but you... you consulted ups. you found a better way. that's logistics. that's margin. find out what else ups knows. i'll do that. you're on a roll. that's funny. i wasn't being funny, bob. i know.

government jobs taking away all guns. but that's not what i'm saying. i would just think that the founding fathers could have foreseen automatic weapons coming down the pike.

i doubt it. i don't think they were thinking about that when they wrote the second amendment. people change, times change. nobody is going to be grabbing your gun but you might want to make sure that you are not mentally ill before you get it. the second amendment allowed muskets, not semiautomatic assault rifles nor pistols with large clips. here, here on that one. and shannon tweets, why can't all of our constitutional rights be subjected to limits except the ones conferred by the second amendment? we like that one, too. keep your thoughts coming on our facebook and twitter page. tonight in our survey i asked you, will you support any politician who doesn't support reasonable gun laws? 8% of you said yes. 92% of you said no. still to come, how can we take guns out of the hands of the mentally ill in this country?

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and we are back. president obama has made a counteroffer to house speaker and we are back. president obama has made a counter offer to house speaker john boehner to fiscal negotiations. president obama has now proposed $400,000 as the new dividing line on taxes, meaning tax rates would return to clinton-era rates for those making $400,000 a year. >> speaker boehner had proposed $1 million a year as the dividing line. the president asked for a total of $1.2 trillion of new tax revenue in his counter offer in exchange for $1.2 trillion in spending cuts. according to reuters, the president has changed the way the cost of living adjustments are made. the president wants the debt limit extended for two years with periodic votes through a process proposed by senator mitch mcconnell. speaker boehner met with the

president at the white house again this morning and had previously offered a one-year extension to the debt limit in return for 1 trillion dollars in budget cuts. >> the offer was reportedly rejected in the white house. the senate will likely come back in the session the day after christmas. on another sad note, hawaii senator dan anhoy, a war hero and the longest-serving member of the senate. he had represented his state as a congressman on senator since hawaii joined the union in 1959. president obama said tonight, tonight, our country has lost a true american hero. according to the senator's staff, his last word was aloha.

coming up, in the aftermath of yet another tragedy, the mental health community needs to assess if it's doing everything it can to stop gun violence. or are they being asked to engage? psychiatrist gail saltz joins me for the discussion next. stay with us.

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i just finished a bowl of your new light chicken pot pie soup and it's so rich and creamy... is it really 100 calories? let me put you on webcan... ...lean roasted chicken... and a creamy broth mmm i can still see you. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. with olay, here's how. new regenerist eye and lash duo the cream smooths the look of lids... softens the look of lines. the serum instantly thickens the look of lashes. see wow!... eyes in just one week with olay. welcome back to "the ed show" as the president has talked about, there are a lot of facets that go into gun violence in this country.

the mental health community is going to have to play a major role if we're going to make changes and see violence go down in this country. making sure they don't have access to firearmings is a big deal. let's go to dr. gail saltz, a clinical psychiatrist. dr. saltz, thanks for being here tonight. >> my pleasure. >> this is something that the mental health community is going to need resources to do. if we're going to lean on the mental health community to be a part of gun control and gun violence in this country, take us down that road. what has to happen? >> well, really, i think the issue here is that some people, who will commit terribly violent crimes do suffer from mental illness. but they're not necessarily

entering the system. so there's one out of 17 people in this country who has a serious mental illness. less than a third of them come in for treatment. so that's a lot of people who ostensibly aren't allowed to purchase guns. but because they're never entered the system, there's no record of them. and therefore, they can. and that could be a risk. >> so in the mental health community, is this something that there could be a data base? >> absolutely. well, let me first say. many people who commit these crimes are not necessarily mentally ill. so will it solve the problem overall if we just ran around, you know, bring everybody into the system and diagnose it? no. however, would it cut down, potentially, on these violent crimes? i think it might. more over, a lot of people who really need treatment would get treatment. so there's no downside to the need to bring the mental health care in this country up from

being at the bottom of the barrel where it is. >> but, in the most recent shootings that we've seen, obviously, the perpetrators have had issues. had they had been in the mental health system, this could have been prevented. >> maybe, we don't know. the reality is that people who seem to be at risk for violent crimes have certain features. paranoia, depression, impulsivity. a history of breaking the law and substance abuse. we don't know if any of these things were involved at all. sometimes we won't be able to get everyone. sometimes it's possible that this person won't have done it anyway. mental health might not have been able to prevent it. however, had you been in the system, it's possible that the professional treating would have said to the mother you know what, he's really ill. you shouldn't have guns around your son. that is very possible. >> someone wants to go in and buy a firearm, there could be a law that they have to go in and get mentally checked out. >> i could see that people will be disturbed and i could see it

would be very difficult to pull off. what i think is probably more practical, if you will, is if people understood the signs and symptoms of mental illness, basically any emotional state, and brought them in to get treatment, to enter the system, those that would be dangerous would be dealt with appropriately. those who maybe don't appear dangerous, but shouldn't have a firearm would be told so. and their families would be told so. because, of course, in this case, he didn't buy the guns. his mother did. >> but you also run into the issue of seeing a doctor, having it covered, insurance issues, it's one domino after another. >> and this is the big problem. mental health care in 2012, between the stigma that still exists, between the lack of priority, not only for crisis management of mental health issues, but the idea of prevention is almost nonexistent. so with this combination, people